Comments on Exegetical Thoughts and Biblical Theology: What the Bible Teaches about the Destiny of the Wi...

Hi, Steve,Given your scenario, there's no justice....

2008-06-27T22:23:00.000-04:00

Hi, Steve,

Given your scenario, there's no justice. However, your scenario fails to account for grace and the Scriptural description of divine justice.

Grace, as presented in Scripture, means that ALL men are sufficiently enabled to overcome their inward propensity to evil to respond to the truth God gives them. Failure to respond justly deserves punishment.

Romans 2:12 says God measures out punishment in accordance with the amount of knowledge a person has. Not all men who justly deserve eternal conscious punishment suffer equally, for their culpability varies.

Finally I reject the language of torture for it necessarily implies sadism. God punished his precious Son so that no human need experience the Hell which was never intended for them. Those who end up in Hell do so through their deliberate rejection of God's grace.

(1) God is just; therefore, whatever penalty he pr...

2008-06-27T20:39:00.000-04:00

(1) God is just; therefore, whatever penalty he prescribes for sin must be just.

OK, what's the justice here. A man is born with a bent toward imperfection. He can't avoid sinning to some degree no matter how hard he tries. And because he's raised in a Muslim home in Pakistan, he has no inclination to convert to Christianity.

So it's just that God should torture him for endless billions of years on that account? How so?

Hi, Dave,1. Hades = Abyss: I don't think so for th...

2008-06-19T20:58:00.000-04:00

Hi, Dave,
1. Hades = Abyss: I don't think so for this reason: All fallen angels are not kept in the Abyss, e.g., demons possessing people, Satan, principalities and powers. All the wicked dead, however, are currently in Hades.

2. I don't subscribe to the two-compartment theory of Hades. I regard it as an overreading (eisegesis) of Eph. 4:8-10 and Luke 16. However, whether it is true or not is of little significant since all agree it is no longer the case.

A very interesting treatment. I've tried to preach...

2008-06-18T16:02:00.000-04:00

A very interesting treatment. I've tried to preach on Hell before but never saw all the links you draw. Would it be safe to say that Hades is the equivalent for man of what the Abyss is for fallen angels?

In the Paradise Lost and Paradise Restored Milton described Jesus descending into Hell to take the keys from the devil and set the prisoners free from Abrahams bosom. (ie the song the Little Boy from the Carpenters Shop)

Now I know that a work of poetry is not authoritative, but do you think that that scene is excluded by what is revealed in scripture?

Could the two functions be colocated?

Dave Withe

Hi, Randy,I would distinguish never-ending from in...

2008-05-19T20:19:00.000-04:00

Hi, Randy,
I would distinguish never-ending from infinite. The "act" of sin is finite and cannot be infinite. The consequences of sin, however, are a different matter. Sin offends an infinitely Holy Person. The offense appears to be never-ending unless the sinner accepts God's punishment of His Son as a vicarious atonement.

Yes, I've read Lewis's Great Divorce a couple times. It is interesting, but it fails to reflect what I find in Scripture.

Phil

Thanks, also, Phil for this good treatment. Been o...

2008-05-19T13:48:00.000-04:00

Thanks, also, Phil for this good treatment. Been on my mind lately.
One Q/observation. You said: "(2) Sin is an offense against an infinite Being; therefore, it is not entirely finite in nature."
I don't quite know how this can hold together unless somehow the act of sin 'participates' in the being of God. That is to say, sin, as an act of a human person may or may not be finite (as alluded elswehere). But God's being infinite would seem to have no bearing on the finitude or infinitude of a human person's act of sin.
No?
Blessings,
Randy

PS Have you read Lewis' Great Divorce? He an G. Macdonald have something going, not new of course, but, uh, rather difficult to mesh with traditional understanding on these questions.

Amen. Thank you for the time and effort you put i...

2008-05-18T22:59:00.000-04:00

Amen. Thank you for the time and effort you put into things like this.
It is appreciated!

Thanks for the helpful study, Philip. Good and sob...

2008-05-18T13:38:00.000-04:00

Thanks for the helpful study, Philip. Good and sobering words.

As I read our post, I found myself wishing that you used RefTagger on your site. It's a free tool that turns your Scripture references into links to BibleGateway.com; it also has windows that pop up on a hover over.